Steven 'Revo' Miller

Steven Revo: We can have bands that you believe in, bands that you think are really, really **** good and they implode.

Sean O’Neill: Newspapers have to sell. Bad news travels faster than Google.

Steven Revo: There’s a house guy that’s even going to stage and check all the connections and get the power booing and the crowd are booing and you know..

Sean O’Neill: Are you known by Steven or Revo?

Steven Revo: I think close friends call me Steve or Steven. Done something wrong.

Sean O’Neill: Your mom.

Steven Revo: But yeah, but most people just Revo.

Sean O’Neill: And when did Revo start? Did that start when you get into the music industry or?

Sean O’Neill: Yeah, it’s kind of a long story but I was a student in Manchester and I was, I’d say I work DJ. Bars every night and stuff like that. I’d gone round with my mixtapes and I’d walk into places and then play my mixtape and I’d be like, if you play my tape, you got to give me some work. But I didn’t have a DJ name and I was using my real name, Steven Miller and the Mancunians used to just think it was funny. Because of Steve Miller band and they just come up and go Abracadabra. Play Abracadabra. That was a regular one and then I was DJing a fashion show in a bar called Prague five and I was speaking to one of the models and I was telling her about my frustrations. And I’d started DJing and I bought a set of decks with my student loan and they were in my little dormitory room.

We met this Nigerian DJ called Jay Measey and he was 10 years old as I mean. He was like a proper Chicago house DJ and I was doing a lot of hip hop stuff, so I could scratch and do all that. But he was like three four songs at once Chicago house and then we met in the club one night and I was with my other friends. He kind of came over to us and saw us, we’re having a nice party. And I started DJing, I got a knock on my door the next day and there he was and he was like **** hell, you got techniques in your room and then we started DJing together. And he was that good. He was just phenomenal and I’d never mixed house music and I was like how’d you do it the beats are the same. I had to tell him apart. And just one of them I kind of started to catch up and get quite good at it, and he used stand in the background.

So, if I had a good mix going, he’d shout, Steve O’Revo on the Deeper House. And then we were going to Sankey’s Soap a lot on a Friday and Saturday for Bugged Out and Golden and they were like the club nights that Manchester’s smaller much smaller versions of Cream. And they just start chatting my name. The Rivo in the club and then when I was doing this this fashion show that it was Beverly Turner and she said, why don’t you just self. That’s a really cool name. And that’s like you know. Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: Did you go online to see who’s done any competition for it?

Steven Revo: I didn’t actually. I think it’s quite a popular name in in Malaysia. But I’ve not met another Rivo yet. So, thankfully I mean I haven’t patented it or copyrighted it or anything, but yeah, I suppose it’s a I don’t know.

Sean O’Neill: So, in the early days it was you were a full time DJ or had you got a job on the side.

Steven Revo: I did some bar work but I was mostly DJing and I kind of felt like I was doing my degree. But I was learning the trade and the trade was mixing records and Manchester had very different records shops to Liverpool. So, when I came back to Liverpool my collection would have been a lot different to say the equivalent DJs. Different cities have different styles and I’ve been kind of in tune to a lot of hip hop and drum and bass and Big Beat Breaks and anything I really love the Chemical Brothers. I love Death in Vegas. Richard Fearless and I love John Carter who was doing all the heavenly social stuff. So, they were kind of my influence as a DJ. Then but I remember I was doing a good five nights a week on different bar each night and there wasn’t much money in it. I can remember one place like playing me 40 quid and you get 8 beers, but I didn’t really want the beers. But that’s kind of how it was and you’re doing 4, 5-hour sets. A lot of DJs now are just doing 19 minutes maybe 2 hours and I used to feel like I was just kind of getting into my rhythm after 2 hours. So yeah, that’s.

Sean O’Neill: So, you’re using the early days as practice to.

Steven Revo: It was I called it paid practice. Because you’ve got, you’re living with other people. I remember I live with this guy Aviv. These current Vegas speakers and I bought them back. They were on sale in a high-fi shop in Manchester. I think what’s a bit about this big and I remember just the he opened the door to me when I rocked up with him and he just felt like that. He was in the room above me. He just died on the spot. So, doing it in the bars where I lived and in Manchester City Centre it was pretty much a practice.

Sean O’Neill: Did you have to go and search these gigs out or did they come to you?

Steven Revo: Originally, I went around with tapes. I had like the uptown side and the downtown side, so two different styles. But essentially one could flow into the other, and you’d go around giving your mixtapes out and you get work from that. And then as I say I went into a couple of bars and they were just playing my tape and it’s like, well, if you playing with tape you got to give me some work. And then people would come and book me and then other students would start nights. So, I got asked to do a couple of residencies and little kind of experimental clubs. So, I did all that and does that.

Sean O’Neill: Does that exist now where DJs would walk around or enter clubs and try and get face to face business, or is it done online? I’ve got a reason for asking.

Steven Revo: Yeah, I mean now DJs can put poster mixes and there’s a source where you can go to but you didn’t have that. It was very physical when I was doing it. It wasn’t a digital medium at the time. So, you’re playing vinyl. So, you’ve got to get the records. So thankfully Manchester has some of the best record shops in the country, but you’re in there every other day and whatever you’re getting paid to DJ you’re buying more records because you want to develop your set. You don’t just be playing the same static set all the time.

Sean O’Neill: The reason for asking is our property business. We did a digital campaign from our office.

Steven Revo: Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: Were very static. People sat at a computer, promoted pay-per-click ads and various things to try and generate business for property sales. It wasn’t really working and I’ve always told stories about how I’ve maneuvered through my career; my business path and it’s been that face-to-face interaction.

Steven Revo: Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: Where I’ve basically knocked doors and said, hello, I’m Sean.

Steven Revo: Yeah, kind of cold calling almost.

Sean O’Neill: Any chance I can speak to you. What far will I just want to do something, whatever it was, whether it was buy something, sell something, negotiated whatever the case may be with whatever business I was or business angle I was coming. So, we did a door knocking campaign recently which to the guys that were going to go out were quite skeptical of that they thought that the business is easy to just generate through your digital means. And it was incredible the uptick. That the people that answered the door felt so relieved that they could speak to someone face to face. And they had saw many leaflets drops campaigns online and they just have found that it’s and I don’t know the answer but I found that it’s go gone so far that it’s okay to send an Email or a DM to an inbox. And that’s deemed as oh I’ve done my job or I’ve tried to get business and I can’t or tried to make connections, and I guess that’s the reason that I found that I think we now are in a place where there’s actually a huge opportunity for people are still willing to go out there and knock the door and say, hello, I’m Revo, I’m Sean any chance we could have a chat.

Steven Revo: Yeah. Yeah, it’s very impersonal and if you’re doing it on the social platforms, how do you differentiate one ad from the other. But if you got someone looking at you in the eye and talking to you, then you’re going to get a better feel for what they’re trying to sell or what they’re trying to put forward to. With the DJ and I suppose it’s at first no one knew I was and you kind of build it up slowly and you get residencies and because you’re working five nights a week and you’re moving around different venues you get other opportunities. But initially it was me walking into places giving people my tapes and asking for gigs.

Sean O’Neill: Did you just accept whatever they offered you for the night or had you got a minimum?

Steven Revo: No because I just wanted to do it to be honest. And the money was it wasn’t really the motivation. I wanted to be a good DJ. I didn’t just want to just be playing songs. I wanted to be showing off the craft and the mixing and the skills that I’d learnt.

Sean O’Neill: You learn your craft.

Steven Revo: Yeah, because I’ve been DJing and I’d supported big name DJs and stuff like that. And you kind of realize that well hang on this guy’s getting 10 grand for two hours, I’m getting 150 quid, but I’m actually as a good if not better. And so, it’s just one of them. I enjoyed it. The money wasn’t, the money was like a bonus basically because you’re getting your alcohol whatever. You’re learning how to DJ. You’re meeting people. You’re in the right even the coolest bars in Manchester. You’re affectionately getting called around Scouts by the mics and all that and I used to really enjoy it. So, I didn’t come out of union loads of debt. There was a little bit there but because I’d been picking up little fees that was keeping me going.

Sean O’Neill: So, you knew that was your direction. Music and some.

Steven Revo: More so than anything academic. I mean I was doing an English literature degree with a little film studies add on. And I enjoyed it. But I just remember about three weeks into it thinking well this doesn’t feel like it’s a level above my A levels. And it just kind of feels like the same. It doesn’t feel like it’s advancing me in terms and it’s is it going to another three years essentially of just being at an A level, but you’ve got a degree to show for it. So, I remember three weeks into my degree, I started getting doubts about it and stuff like that and it was just one of them it was like a path to course. It was something I had to get because I’ve been in a car accident, I’ve been told I couldn’t do physical work. So, it’s just one of them before. I’ll persist with it and I’ll do it and then it’s always at the back and obviously when you come out a lot of job interviews you need that degree. And whether you’re better for the job or not, it least gets you through the door. So, I did it for that but.

Sean O’Neill: Did you actually think you might take a job someday?

Steven Revo: Yeah, well I had to and I came out you know it’s just one of them and I moved back home and I was like, oh, it’s so different here everything finishes at 11 o’clock, I’m used to everything starting at 11 o’clock in Manchester. And I came back here and I was a bit I suppose hit for 6 a bit bewildered, there was a cultural shift. And I tried to do those blue-chip corporate jobs and I was never not good at what I was doing. I always kind of picked up things pretty quickly. None of them had anything to do with what I’ve done at Uni, but I just found it was so hard to get a permanent job. There’s a lot of short-term contracts and I think I got made redundant 6 times. And on the 6th time in Liverpool, we’d started our own club night and I was doing well enough and I was DJing at Baby Cream down the docks and that was a nice little wage at the time.

Sean O’Neill: What year was that?

Steven Revo: God, let me think.

Sean O’Neill: I arrived here 2003.

Steven Revo: Yeah, so 2003, we started the night. So yeah, that’s when I got the final. The redundancy from the company that I thought I’d love to work with this company properly and I was doing a really good job and then they said we’re going to give you 6 months redundancy. You’ve got to teach the Vice President Secretary how to do your job and it was this lady that looked like Alice Cooper and I was just like so she’s just hanging in there for one more year to retire and get a little bit but at the expense of my future company. So, I was a bit peeved with that. And as I say, we’d started a club night in Liverpool. I had a couple of other DJ gigs and I was like, you know what? I’m just going to go in this direction because I’ve given this two, three years. You’re never really happy. I was driving home from work. I was doing commutes back and forth to Manchester at times as well when I was working for Fujitsu.

But it’s, I was plugging in as and DJing 2, 3 hours a night when I got home just to kind of forget that I’d been all day in an office because. It just I can work, I could work in an office but I just wasn’t really an office person.

Sean O’Neill: That resembles yeah, so many people’s lives. I remember I got a job on a building site. A really good friend of mine said to me, just come with me for a few days and see do you enjoy it. I remember he had me on top of a roof hammering nails. It was February, so it was about this time of year and hammering nails into these frames. And I remember about the hundred to nail in. I said some very strong words and I said, I don’t know what I’m going to do in my life but I definitely can’t do this.

Steven Revo: Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: And then which kind of led me into the path of just probably what you described. I met these influential people when I moved to Liverpool. And I knew I didn’t have the skills that they had, but I knew that I wanted to learn those skills and be around those people. So, I would do anything possible paid for or unpaid for which is probably unpaid for because I wasn’t really much use to try and help whether it was move furniture, whether it was try and find a tenant for them, whether it was just be around or even be liked enough to be invited out to be in their company which then helped me understand what they’re doing, how they’re doing it, learn my craft.

Steven Revo: Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: And then I imagine then there was a transition because, do you do much DJing now or is it?

Steven Revo: No, now…

Sean O’Neill: It’s all, it’s promotion.

Steven Revo: Fun hobby now. So, if I come home about a few days, so.

Sean O’Neill: So, how did you move in from, so was there a point you thought you could see there was something else you wanted to move on to?

Steven Revo: Yeah, it’s weird because when I was asked to do nights by my friends in Manchester and they asked me to do marketing and promotion, I was like no. I just want to DJ but then when we started Revo and obviously I’d been through the revolving door of corporations around Merseyside. When we started that, it was just there’s a promoter called Sam Jones who done a techno night called Voodoo. Very very legendary night and we used to go when we were about 18, 17, 18 maybe and I can tell you I probably saw these world-class DJs, but I never knew who was the DJ. It could have been Laura Garnier or James Ruskin or Dave Clark, someone like that. That wasn’t the driving factor. It was just going out to this club and the music was like something I’d never heard before and the promoter that club, he was doing a programming for heebie-jeebies.

We started the night. It was myself a girl from Hamburg called Plastic Pony. She’s a very stylish beautiful girl. Really fun DJ that used to dance and had all these moves as she was DJing. It’s kind of like the mighty Bouche. And Danny and Reuben from Lady Tron and they just come off world tour. Danny had experience in Liverpool because he’d started an indie night called Liquidation which is I think it’s 30 years old. Now it’s still going. So, he was one of the key protagonists in starting that. And Sam Jones basically was programming the venue. Danny wanted to start a new night I’d been practicing DJing with Ruben from the band and Reuben had told Danny that I was pretty good, and that we kind of formed together.

And so, we started the club night, but after two nights Sam that brought us in and he kind of became like a mentor to me over the years. he got a job at the 02 Academy, so he left the venue and then this is how I became a promoter. The other guys were just too bongoed at 3 in the morning to count money, and I could still count money. And so, basically from that point onwards after two nights, I became the linchpin of it whereas they were just the DJs, I’d still do the warm up and I’d still do the last hour. But I could do the finances at the end of the night and that’s when I started to approach agents about artists and get on the phone and what have you got, who’s on the road, who’s this band block party, okay, we can book them what you want for them 100 pounds, great. And it just started to roll like that.

I mean we had about eight months there and I’m not going to say every night worked, but 90% worked and we had a really nice. It was like a moment in Liverpool where there were a lot of arts grants available so a lot of international students and people from Texas and New York and people from Europe and everyone seemed to polarize that [INAUDIBLE 19:57]. It kind of became quite good.

Sean O’Neill: So, you sort of stopped the DJing then?

Steven Revo: I still DJs, but I was doing the promotion and well the marketing approach promotion and I started booking the acts and I found that I had been here for a good act or I kind of knew something that would be good. And I suppose that comes from selecting songs as a DJ. So, the DJing kind of sometimes when I’m when I’m booking a venue, I look at it as I’m doing a live mixtape across a year. So, in my head that’s how I’m entwined with it. But I kind of started to unearth a lot of new artists that pretty much two or three weeks after we played to get a massive record deal or they blow up. So, then the club kind of changed from say a dance music club with a live element at midnight to more, we’re going to do bands until 11 and then we’re going to DJ till 3. And we just.

Sean O’Neill: Did you just go with the demand or the flow or how did you know to be able to?

Steven Revo: Basically, we change venue after 8 heebie-jeebies closed and so we moved over to the Carlin Academy then which is the O2 Academy now. And very, we did our first nights and they were all kind of DJs with some live bands before them but a headline DJ like Errol Elkin or Miss Kitten something like that. But what I realized there London Road might as well as been Ormskirk. So, if you’re in Liverpool City Centre and you got a venue and it’s a 10-minute walk, but that 10 walk was like a mental obstacle. In Manchester you got to go across town. People just jump in a cab and go but in Liverpool that 10-minute walk was like literally walking to Nosily or something in people’s heads.

Sean O’Neill: No, I find that, I find because I’m so used to everything being done in Liverpool City Centre so close. If it is 10 minutes.

Steven Revo: Tiny.

Sean O’Neill: Yeah. But if I do go to another city I’m happy to walk a half an hour.

Steven Revo: Yeah, exactly and especially if you’re somewhere new. You’re looking around and taking it in and getting a vibe of the place but I just found them that our nights kind of morphed and had to be more talent based and event led rather than we’re just going to DJ.

Sean O’Neill: So, all these other skill sets and part of the operations you become a businessman and really operating and running a business not just the DJ. All these skills that they come naturally to you? Or were you exposed to them slowly over time? It was a trial and error because this story.

Steven Revo: It just feels to be honest it feels quiet, I never had a problem doing it. I suppose the hardest thing was learning how to DJ and once I knew I could then I upgraded my gear and got the really good stuff and then it was just pleasure.

Sean O’Neill: I read Michael O’Leary’s book Ryan R.

Steven Revo: Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: And he was the accountant.

Steven Revo: Yeah. And still is probably.

Sean O’Neill: Well still is, but again the opportunity came about the Ryan Family Owned Griner and the opportunity came about. Don’t need to get into the story, but he was there and he knew that someone needed to do this, needed to do that to keep the operations going.

Steven Revo: Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: And the rest is history and he’s become obviously a successful businessman. But the theme of what you’re saying, the theme of it but what I’m saying about you’re in the place the time is right, the opportunity opens up and you’ve just taken it. Because you enjoy it, because it feels right, because it’s needed, I guess. Someone needs to count the money.

Steven Revo: Yeah, well you think it’s your chance and obviously I’ve been through the meal and I’ve been trying to do the right thing with you know the job that your parents would accept and all that and I tried and I was never happy. I was never comfortable in those environments like the jobs were easy. I could do the work with my hands tied by my back a lot of the time and every time I was made redundant. I was always surprised because the people in my department’s like well the procurement’s never been this good and it always felt like well why am I getting released if I’m good at it? I could never really, but you just, it’s just numbers on a spreadsheet, isn’t it? For those type of businesses.

Sean O’Neill: Before we go into your promotion your business, I feel like the lesson there is that I never overvalued my time. I would literally change a light bulb and go and do it for nothing. I would help with the furniture and apartment or I would food, sample taste food and arrest my friend’s restaurant. I would basically be there and be available and be useful and get on without asking for any instant renomination. Because I knew that if I had could add value or if I could understand the inner workings, I’ve got a chance to then say well I need more than 40 pound the night wages or, and I get the sense that it’s easy to say in hindsight as we sit here and talk and we’ve been quite successful. But there seems to be a theme from the people that have done well set up their own businesses that the message that I would give to someone younger coming through is that you have to think, okay, you didn’t need money to survive. But the money to survive is a lot different than the money to buy your first house or your, or a brand-new car or go out every weekend and buy yourself new clothes.

Steven Revo: Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: And that’s the sense that I get from your opportunities came, because you needed you knew what you needed not what you wanted or you wanted to prematurely.

Steven Revo: Yeah. Well, I just it’s just one of them. But I felt we’d started something significant. And Liverpool was a very different animal. You didn’t have indie bars or there was not a lot of promoters. The promoters were doing club music and that was pretty cut through. I got the hell that after getting a few threats I was just like, okay, so this club’s threatening me, this club’s threatening me, this promoter’s threatening me, this guy from this venue is ringing me up and threatening me. It’s like we’re not doing anything wrong, just sorry but France Fed and I want to come and DJ for us. They don’t want to come and DJ for you. It’s just how it was natural. It wasn’t like we were being malevolent but I felt, oh God, the book and the DJs that’s a bit of a more cut-throat game.

But at that time Liverpool kind of left alone by a lot of the national promoters, because it’s a hard place to sell tickets. So, the big promoters would just do a Manchester play until the bands you can do a bigger venue in Manchester and people from Liverpool will come to that gig. So, we don’t play Liverpool if we play Manchester. So, it was kind of a bit for a musical city and a city such musical heritage, musical heritage. It was kind of a dog’s leg. It wasn’t really part of the A list tour. You could have 10 A grade city; Liverpool wasn’t an A grade. In fact, I think when I first started talking to agents. I think it was considered a seat; it wasn’t even considered a city it was like a town like level C on touring. So, we were I felt we were doing.

Sean O’Neill: You know why?

Steven Revo: Just because the way I look at it is I have to work really hard on my shows and then when you have a promoter of stature and they do the 10 gigs, it’s pressure. They answer to the manager of the band and the band, the band want to present a sold-out tour. If they’ve got 10 shows one of them is Liverpool 9 of them are sold out, but Liverpool’s only on 33% of the tickets. They can’t say there’s tours sold out. They want to say the tour’s sold out. So, what do they do, they don’t play Liverpool and they just play the places where they think they can sell out. But when a group gets to a certain level and they do sell out in Liverpool, it’s two things. They know they’ve made it as a group and it’s probably the best gig on the tour, because the crowd here is so receptive and so good.

The gigs are great in Manchester. The crowds are great in Manchester, but it’s got a little geographical advantage and it’s a bigger city and a bigger hinterland and unfortunately Liverpool falls into that hinterland of Manchester. So, I felt like we were doing something significant and we were getting groups to play here that wouldn’t come here and Liverpool wasn’t really seen as a necessary place to play. But then because we’d had success with bands that Arctic Monkeys or The Cooks and because they were blowing up and they were charting and they were becoming really big acts, then it kind of we got this it was like a rite of passage to play Revo and Liverpool then. This is almost like having a royal seal of approval.

So, it was like we got that badge of honor and it didn’t really take that long for us to develop that. It was like two free years and then it was kind of like well if you’re doing your first or second gig in Liverpool you got to play for Revo.

Sean O’Neill: So yeah, you’re following your brand.

Steven Revo: Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: When did you actually stop calling yourself a DJ and become a event’s organizer or promoter or what is there a difference between an event’s organizer or a promoter?

Steven Revo: Yeah, I think like somewhat national promoters, so I think they’re bookers because they’ll book a tour. But then they’ll go marketing department or venues pull your finger out and get the show sold out. But for me, I book a show but then I’m doing the marketing I’m promoting it. so, and it’s my money, it’s not a company’s money. so, I feel like I am a promoter, the DJ and I kind of phased out after we spent a year at the 02 and whilst we had the 02, we were working with Rob Gutman and we were developing a venue in town called Corova. So, the whole time we’re at the 02, I knew we had an end game. I mean we’re going to be there forever but what I was just trying to do there was get a consistency and get the right artist and build a reputation. So, then when we did move into Corova which was essentially a club night in our own bar, which was a 7 day a week operation rather than just a Friday night. So, I kind of used that year to build to go into that year.

Sean O’Neill: Where was Corona?

Steven Revo: Corova’s closed now, but it was open just off Concert Square. There some kind of black rabbit vodka bar now and the downstairs room that we used to use is called Soto, like a Japanese theme bar. I think but they’re doing live music now as well. And so, Corova was pretty hit and it was cool and it was something we had in Liverpool that you probably have to go to London for. It was very stylish inside, very arty, a lot of attention to detail. And we had this live room which was a basement, not a great basement to play but it had like a funnel effect like a bottleneck. And the audience would drive forward and the gigs were electric in there. But technically from a production point of view, it was a terrible venue. But it was a great venue at the same time and the bands absolutely love playing there.

And so, that was open. I think the first incantation of it nearly four years and then the rent was so high on the location. And Rob had another location which is now Fredericks and that was a lot cheaper. And so, we hauled and moved across town, but it just never really felt the same after we left the original bar, which was our baby really. So yeah, that I mean that was an important time because what I did at Corova that the work I did there and the bands I booked doing again, that was I write a passage. And then because I was doing quite prolific bookings there, that’s when Dave Pichelingi from Sound City who just kind of got the approval from the council to do Sound City and he came to me and said, I wanted to book the artist for Sound City.

So, it got me to that point then. And then Sound City was I did the first 8 years then I’d left for a year and then I came back and did the 10th year, but I literally booked hundreds and hundreds of artists for that festival.

Sean O’Neill: So how long if you do something as big as Sound City? How much of your time does that actually take then?

Steven Revo: All my time. It’s a thing. I worked because it’s one of them and you go to London and it’s a different world. You know what I mean? Scout slide and you’re going down there.

Sean O’Neill: Because imagine booking these people you have to show them, you’re there to look after them as well as much as putting their name down on a sheet.

Steven Revo: Yeah, so I always had that personal touch and always hospitality and looking after the artist was always kind of quite intrinsic and essential. But I just remember the first time I went to London and everyone knew what I was doing in Liverpool. All the ages around London. I remember having to map it all out. I hadn’t really been to London before and I’ve seen all these big agents and they’re all multi-millionaires, big artists. They have the pantomime of making you wait in one office and you get put in another office and then the doors will finally open and you get to see them and talk to them. But when we first started Sound City, we were doing those rounds. No one was taking us seriously at all and we had aspirations and dreams. We wanted to be bigger than the great escape and, in my head, I wanted to bring in strands from what I’ve experienced on the road of Lady Toronto and seeing European festivals.

Sean O’Neill: As a business, I’m fascinated by the and understand the importance of cash flow.

Steven Revo: Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: And people around you and how things are such a fine line with most businesses between doing extremely well.

Steven Revo: Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: And actually, not making it past the first couple of years. Is that the same in your industry? Are you protected between, do you go so far to make sure there’s cash flow and there’s interest and there’s bookings and you can sell out something before you put a lot of expense and time into it. Is there a lot of speculation?

Steven Revo: There’s and development because some artists can take three or four shows. Yeah, I had a band from Ireland called The Murder Capital. First time they came they weren’t that happy. 30 people. Come over from Dublin. They stuck with me, came again, sold out, and then saw high fives when they come off stage.

Sean O’Neill: Did they get paid the same or was?

Steven Revo: They got paid more.

Sean O’Neill: The second time.

Steven Revo: Yeah, they got paid more. Yeah. I lost money on the first show.

Sean O’Neill: Yeah.

Steven Revo: But then you paid them all to come back but then they’ve grown as a band. So, you trying to, a lot of the time  you’re taking the hit on that first show and it’s kind of hard to attain the artist, so I’d I’ll be at the show, I’ll have a rep setting up and preparing the venue and doing the [INAUDIBLE 35:47] in the hospitality.

Sean O’Neill: So, you’re really hands on then.

Steven Revo: Yeah, but I’ll be there and they know I’m there and they know they’ve played for me then and they remember me and I can see them at a festival in Europe or in America. And I’ll have my name shouted across the road or something like that and they remember you. but a lot like say in a band called Metronome, I remember it was the fourth show where they felt, yeah okay, we’ve got a crowd in Liverpool now. It took me four shows and then the fifth, sixth, seventh, they gradually grew into an academy one level band.

Sean O’Neill: So, them four shows you took the people on the journey with you and said look stick by me I’m losing money here but I believe in you.

Steven Revo: Yeah, I mean they never really think that you’re losing money because they just think you boost as millions and you’re making loads of dough being a promoter. But you know what you put your neck on the line and you have a lot of money coming in.

Sean O’Neill: That’s almost every business by the way.

Steven Revo: And if you’re getting paid by, yeah if you, I paid by a festival to book for them you’re not getting that much money. It took me a number of years before I got a relatively decent salary out Sound City the first few years. It was just paying my bills. Survival money every month. But you’re building and building and building.

Sean O’Neill: Are you still on survival money? People aren’t going to feel sorry for you the whole the whole time.

Steven Revo: Yeah, well I’ve bought a house but I still cycle. I don’t have a car.

Sean O’Neill: That’s true choice.

Steven Revo: Yeah. I think it is actually because I looked buying a car last year and I just thought I’m not spending that for that just.

Sean O’Neill: You don’t need a money to buy a car now. You can finance it, you know?

Steven Revo: Yeah, yeah, I know. It’s not like you’re lashing out and I know everyone’s on leases and things like that.

Sean O’Neill: You’re obviously.

Steven Revo: But it just didn’t equate so what am I going to get? I’m quite happy cycling to Liverpool. I’m quite happy using the train. If I go to Manchester, I use the train.

Sean O’Neill: What’s refreshing and very enjoyable is you’re obviously modest so whatever thousands or millions you make, you’re not someone that’s going to change or act too differently by the sounds of things.

Steven Revo: I hope not if that ever does happen. Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: And normally I heard that great quote about people that want to make a million is they actually want to spend a million.

Steven Revo: Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: Because if you want to make it, there’s a reason you want to have it. The people that end up with the millions of people that don’t really want to spend the understanding by your making is hard enough.

Steven Revo: Yeah, I think I’m still in survival mode and that’s my motivation. I don’t really think about making thousands of thousands of pounds and it’s an up and down business and COVID hit the music industry very hard. A lot of venues are closed. A lot small like I think 135 venues closed last year and these were the grassroots venues that where bands develop and learn their craft as a group. And this is where if Arctic Monkeys had never played a small venue for me where would they be now, or the equivalent of me in every city. If you don’t have that circuit, how do these bands develop, how do they learn, how to play to an audience, how do they learn how to develop their music. Because not everyone just it just doesn’t come easy to it, not everyone’s a genius. People have to learn as they’re doing it it’s all empirical.

So, without venues in place, it’s where’s the Glastonbury headliner come? You can’t keep booking Elton John and stuff like that. These are old hat guys. As much as they were great back in the day and they were talented and they’re exceptional musicians. Where’s the next crop coming from? And the bands that come through and get to that level. It’s percentage wise out, I could say would it even be 2% of bands that get to the stratosphere where they are in Arctic Monkeys. They are getting big bookings globally. They can get a big theme in Kuala Lumpur. They can get a big theme in Mexico City.

Sean O’Neill: So, is there an element of there’s not enough venues for all of these new bands coming through or is there an element of commercially? It costs a lot to be able to tour and play.

Steven Revo: Yeah, this thing is lots of things into play now since Brexit and COVID but it’s harder to tour. There’s no free movement in Europe used to just be able to get on a bus and go city to city. Now you’ve got to register all your gear from borders and it’s paperwork and red tape and countries have different methods and procedures. So, it’s become more expensive and a lot of British, UK, and Irish acts would make a lot of money in Europe and that’s much harder for them to do that. And I’ve been speaking to my peers in places like Stockholm or Barcelona and you might feel sorry for yourself in Liverpool but when they tell you what the bands you’re booking are doing in their cities and you’re like, wow. Because it used to be a case of the band might not necessarily be a massive group in the UK, but perception wise in Europe they would think that the band are massive in the UK and it’s like a circus coming to town and the whole town comes out to see them kind of thing.

So, there’s always a lot of gravity. So, that’s harder to do now and if the grassroots venues in UK particularly are dying off and it’s numerous things, it’s a battement and noise orders and things like that. It’s just people don’t have as much cash. If they’re going to go and see a big band in Manchester and stay in a hotel and transport and night out, well that’s probably the money for that month spending on that.

Sean O’Neill: Is there other opportunities, I do understand the importance of touring and being live and practicing your skills in front of people and that connection. But, is there also opportunities that have opened up with the world we’re living in now that can go viral overnight if you do it right? Or is that like just headline eh that one in a million people go viral and one in a million batons go viral and they make a fortunate?

Steven Revo: But this is like you can have that TikTok craze, but it’s a crazy quickly moving on to another craze. And once everyone’s done it, they didn’t do it again. They might download that song but they’re not downloading the whole record. So, it’s kind of.

Sean O’Neill: So, have you known somebody who or a band or that has thought they’ve made it overnight digitally, but?

Steven Revo: I know a band that we’re scratching their head thinking why are we in the iTunes chart when we’ve done nothing? And they’re like, what’s going on? Why is this single from 10 years ago in the iTunes chart again and it’s like, oh well, a little girl in Brazil did a dance to it on TikTok and then everyone copied it and then it became a craze but then it doesn’t last that long.

Sean O’Neill: Yeah.

Steven Revo: And a lot of A&R people now are trying to from labels are trying to say they work off TikTok stats. What their views are on TikTok, and they’re not necessarily artists that have spent 10 years honing their craft or. So, it just kind of feels like a very fleeting moment in time when these things go viral and if people can consistently do that, then fair play to them if they can become more than just a one-off dance and keep coming back and drive it. But for I’d say a lot of bands it’s not like that and they’ve got to work, they’ve got to go on the road, they’ve got to build and build. Sometimes it’s the overnight success that took 10 years there there’s that and a lot of the American bands that I put on people that know them here, but they can be going 10, 15 years in America. They can have 5, 6, 7, 8 albums worth of stuff and they come over here people think they’re a new group. But they’ve been working 10,15 years to get to that and to give you that impression. Kings Leon have done that where they’ve been playing for years. So, it’s just different ways, but for me it’s like the circuit of grassroots venues is should be protected.

Sean O’Neill: I find in business in general it can be quite difficult cutthroat. It’s so many moving parts and everybody is out there looking for a piece of the action. No matter what field you’re in. There’s only a certain amount of eh money flowing about for that particular thing. Is it the same in the music industry?

Steven Revo: Yeah, definitely sometimes I feel like I’m the third Neville brother fighting for the scraps on the table. Yeah, I mean you know what there’s been times where promoters have been friends and it’s been kind of harmonious and stuff like that. We’ve kind of work together and things, but when mistakes get higher and egos come into play and things like that, then it becomes a little bit more. And I suppose now like I was saying when I started out, it wasn’t really many promoters. People weren’t touch Liverpool Bargepole, but I suppose since the success of Sound City as a festival and the modern sky label and the fact that Liverpool in terms of a bed of, the talents always been in Liverpool. Talents always been there, no question. But this moment in time, there’s more artists in Liverpool, more musicians who have record deals than I’ve seen since I started.

I think I came in on the back of tramp attack and the Zutons and the Coral kind of doing well and that there was that moment, but kind of nothing superseded that. And I can just remember like Sony and Excel and everyone were always looking at bands in Manchester and they weren’t really casting their eyes on Liverpool. But I think the last five years especially now if you look at what Jamie Webbs has done, I’ve never seen anyone do what he’s done in terms of the numbers at the arena or the Pierhead or Sefton Park. We’ve got these great bands like Echo and the Bunny Man and stuff like that. But they’ve never kind of done these numbers. They’ve not reached these highs in their hometown. So, a group I’ve been working with Red Rum Club who are 6 nice, humble, hardworking, talented guys from Crosby and Brutal.

And I suppose looking back it might be seven years ago when I asked them to play. I think I got them on Sound City first of all. And then I asked them support a band called The Shimmer Band who I thought were going to be the next oasis. I thought this shimmer band were going to be huge. They were from Bristol and one they got caught up in managerial and record label arguments and they lost the momentum but for me they were like, wow, this is going to be a huge band. So Red Run Club supported them at buyers’ club in town. And it’s just of them and the band I could see they had work ethic and they were good, and I liked walking to them and I got on with them. So, we started doing shows. First sell out we had was the Zanzi Bar and we kept setting ourselves goals.

I remember showing the band around the 02 and I’m looking at them as they were looking at the room and I could see they wanted it. they had it in their eyes and it’s like, okay well, I’m willing to put my money on the line, because I believe that you can do this. And we sold out the O2 Academy, played there again year later sold out again. Then we upped our game. Thought well let’s move to Manford Hall. We sold out Manford Hall. And where can we go now? Okay. We’re not at quite an arena level but we’d started to talk about the arena at that point. But it was like okay why don’t we just do two nights at the Olympia and she’d sell out two nights at the Olympia. That’s 4,000 tickets and in my head that’s half the arena and that justifies the risk.

Sean O’Neill: Is there like a multiplication you work off a sell out on a good night equals there should be times X on the next gig. Is it or is it?

Steven Revo: Yeah, I mean there’s no formula. It’s just if you sell out the gig and there’s three months to go before the gig, then you know you can sell more tickets.

Sean O’Neill: Providing you do a good gig that night.

Steven Revo: Even then you could upgrade it and probably sell more but you just kind of you need these markers where you sell them out.

Sean O’Neill: Do you also then Judge after that on like how much does social media and views and followings and engagement.

Steven Revo: Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: Play a part in that, because if you sold out and then would if you didn’t hit the stats or how you felt comfortable on social media platforms would that then concern you about a bigger venue or do you just take in how quick you sell out the venue?

Steven Revo: Yeah, I mean you don’t always just go for it. I mean sometimes you can be a bit more conservative and play it a little safer and you keep bands on a certain level but ultimately everybody wants to rise.

Sean O’Neill: Yeah.

Steven Revo: And it’s about having a career, you’re talking about TikTok before because it’s such a fleeting moment of going viral and you can get all those hundreds of thousands of views. But what’s to follow, if you’re a musician you want a career, you don’t want to have to have a burst and then you’re in the paint factory or in the car factory. You want to 30-year career. You want to make 10 albums. You want to make those albums and then maybe sit back and then you got money coming in and you can do other things, start farming ostriches or something like that. But for me, it is about development and career path and these guys have to go and work really hard. You have to go do four gigs a day on Matthew Street playing covers just to pay the bills at home whilst the band is developing. And it doesn’t happen to every band. There’s no guarantees. It’s you can have bands that you believe in, bands that you think are really **** good, and they implode. They start doing drugs, something happens. They don’t get the breaks. There’re so many variables so to keep the straight line and keep going. It’s quite rare and it’s hard it’s a hard path to tread. So, for me with Red Run Club.

Sean O’Neill: So, you’ve got a big show that are coming up.

Steven Revo: Yeah, we’re going to do the arena and it’s a show that I’ve been talking about with them and the management. Maybe 5 years I started planning it, 4 years ago I started to look at the mechanics of how do you on a show at the arena, what kind of productions needed. So, I started talking to Adlib about what they would do and what kind of lighting and audio equipment they bring in. And just kind of every day is a school day like I suppose most businesses are you’re always learning something new. So, it’s just kind of up stepping up a gear getting sure the making sure the small details are taken care of. Because if just this one point in the plan that doesn’t work, you can really throw the whole gig up, and you want it to be smooth as possible.

You want everyone to be there on time, 7 in the morning we start the build at the venue. And I suppose it’s like a film production, it’s so many variables to get to that point where you’re filming and we just want to, I just want to make sure that everything’s right and that there’s no surprises on the day. Everyone’s prepped, everyone’s aware of the plan and it’s a smooth day. And if you plan it properly, it shouldn’t be a tough. It’ll be a long work day, but it shouldn’t be a tough work day and then obviously at the end you got the gig and you see the band in great spirits. But you see the crowd and the relationship and it’s that kind of thing that really keeps me motivated rather than the financial gain from the show.

Sean O’Neill: As I’ve evolved in my business life and maybe as the years take on health and looking after myself it has become more and more of a priority.

Steven Revo: Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: And the late nights for me have become less and less. Not that I had had as many late nights as a DJ or promoter. Ehm how do you balance the late nights sleep?

Steven Revo: Yeah, well I don’t drink when doing my shows. I’ve had a couple of festivals where I’ve drank and then bad things happen. So.

Sean O’Neill: Any stories?

Steven Revo: Nothing less. So, I try and keep myself, it’s my job. It’s like I wouldn’t if I had a job for someone else, I wouldn’t turn up drunk. I’m not drinking on the job. I don’t need anything else, I don’t. I’m quite happy being at the venue seeing the day develop talking to other tech guys working out different aspects. Learning every time I was in Manchester the other night with Lady trying out a beautiful venue called New Century Hall and I was just learning watching and just picking new bits and you can always do that it’s never going to stop. And even that night I was like, oh God, what if we had this venue in Liverpool what could we do it. For me, it’s perfect it makes money every day of the week because they’ve got restaurants like a Baltic market downstairs. The people are coming in early for the gigs using the facilities and it just seems to be a perfect marriage and a beautiful venue with a heritage and culture and a desire to play there.

It’s like kind of felt Liverpool was lacking with that in some way when I was there, but you’re learning every time. But it’s just I’m happy, I’d say I felt relieved at the end of gig because I know the band had been on tour and there’d been a couple of power cuts at festivals and the front of house guy had had to run to stage and check all the connections and get the power going and the crowd are booing. And so, just a sense of relief that the show’s going well. The crowd have been great, the band are happy which is one of the most important things because bands can pick up on the very smallest thing and can be unhappy coming off stage. They might made a mistake. Someone to come in late on something.

Sean O’Neill: I like how you describe this story of all the things that can go wrong that could do go wrong but you smile.

Steven Revo: Yeah. I think I’m wrong.

Sean O’Neill: But so, this is you’re smiling because it worked out. But because it is like late nights do you get time to switch off? Is there downtime where you think right this is my week and leave me alone.

Steven Revo: I take the dog out every morning. Walk the dog for an hour. That’s, I cycle to and from Liverpool. So, when I’m cycling over obviously it it’s great for physical fitness and I feel like I’m getting fit. Even though I have waves of doing it.

Sean O’Neill: So, you’re not connected to your phone or of anyone.

Steven Revo: Yeah, and then I think as well mentally when you’re on the bike, it’s giving you time to plan out what you’re going to do that day. And you get a plan of action. And even just the actual exercise itself helps give you the drive to do it. But as I say I don’t drink at the shows. I don’t really, I just enjoy doing them especially when they’re at a certain level. And it’s like a new experience and you enjoy it and you wouldn’t do it if you didn’t enjoy it. You know what I mean?

Sean O’Neill: So, how many shows do you have a year or a night?

Steven Revo: Usually, a minimum of 50 depending on [CROSS TALK 56:48].

Sean O’Neill: How many nights is that?

Steven Revo: Be 50 nights.

Sean O’Neill: 50 nights.

Steven Revo: Yeah, but sometimes like last weekend was a block of four nights Thursday you flew till Sunday. But then you’ve got downtime in the week and I can come and do things like this. But the weekend is Friday and Saturday again. It’s not all we so consistent with peaks and troughs. There are better months. It’s quite seasonal. So, the summer’s quite barren for shows because the aspects change. It’s people are going to festivals.

Sean O’Neill: That’s your planning period then is it for the year ahead or?

Steven Revo: Yeah, so come June you’re booking then. You’re in that mode where you’re working out the next 12 months. So, June’s an important month. It’s not a great month to sell tickets or do shows, but it’s a great month to do the work for the next year before the agents are going to Glastonbury and everyone’s having parties at all these festivals for two months. So, June’s very important for that.

Sean O’Neill: And what does the future hold?

Steven Revo: It’s who knows? We’ve aimed high with this gig at the arena. And I find in life that once you do something then it enables you to do something else. Or if you’ve done people can see you’ve done it you might get a job offer, you might get another opportunity to work at that level. So, there’s another band I’m working with the mysteries. So, we’re going to do the Olympia in October. So again, they’re jumping up from the Invisible Wing Factory which they sold out last time. So, it’s just keeping going, keeping the momentum, keeping your relationships healthy. I think the bands that play for me do enjoy playing the gigs and I always seem to get nice feedback and the feed and the ultimate feedback is they do another gig with you. They like it. They want to stay with you. They don’t want to work with a bigger company, a bigger fish because there’s always a bigger fish.

So, and that’s a satisfaction in itself. It’s just retaining the artist. Now, I’m sure Red Run Club could’ve had many an opportunity to go with a live nation or something like that. But in Liverpool, they’re happy working with me, so.

Sean O’Neill: I think that’s the key.

Steven Revo: Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: People, no matter what’s on offer, if people like working with you or being in your presence and know that you’re doing your best, things are forgiven. Because they enjoy the journey and that’s definitely a huge part of, I guess when I was younger, I was definitely more focused and it was a transaction and I needed money in the bank. As I’ve got older, I’ve understood the importance of actually enjoying the process and being around a great bunch of people. Hence why I’m in this room today. This didn’t happen because we all sat down and discussed numbers. I think it actually happened without me discussing the numbers on this one but we’ve got a great group of people. And yeah, we enjoy working with each other and again another lesson that I learned a long time ago that the opportunities come to you if you kept your reputation intact.

Steven Revo: Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: But there’s people out there champion your name, and say good things about you and know you’ve done your best. Might not always been the best but you’ve done your best. You find that you’ll get there.

Steven Revo: I’ve always had this analogy from a movie called Apocalypse Now. The director Francis Ford Coppola spent his own money to do the first scenes. And because he’d risked his own cash and filmed those first scenes. That’s when he then got the backing to actually make the film. But if he hadn’t done that himself, this classic epic probably one of the best movies ever made would never have been made. So, it’s about making that first move for me. And then you know what comes after is the fun bit really seeing what happens and where it takes you. But I think you have to do something. You can’t just not do anything and expect opportunities to come. You’ve got to essentially create a doorway for your own opportunity.

Sean O’Neill: But has that always been the way? Because I find that’s in my nature. If I was to sit and know the opportunity or the next step was in my hands. Maybe it shouldn’t be in, but I knew that maybe shouldn’t even be me that does it. But the next step is in my hands. It could be in four other people’s hands as well. But I know that I can’t sit and wait.

Steven Revo: Yeah.

Sean O’Neill: Because even if I speculate my money, my time risk my reputation or whatever the case may be. The fact that that opportunity is there and everybody’s to eyeball and are waiting. I just either walk away completely or the opportunity isn’t for me or I have to speculate something time money and all of the above. I get the sense that has that been in you always because you speculated your time when you were younger. You speculate your money as you become a promoter and all.

Steven Revo: I suppose it’s just I mean you’re doing it. You don’t really tend to think about it. You just kind of it’s like a natural thing. Your ideas flow and you go with them. I probably might have been better off if I hadn’t gone with some of my ideas, but I feel it’s even if you don’t make the monetary gain or whatever, you at least learn from something or if you fail at something, you can come back and do something better.

Sean O’Neill: Have you got something for us where it all went completely wrong but in hindsight, it’s helped you.

Steven Revo: Yeah, I’ve done a festival where I’ve lost a lot of money and at the timing and I and I felt I had to do something but it was too fresh out of COVID it’s too early. And I ended up losing a good chunk of dough for a promoter a record loss, but you recover from it and you keep going. But you just approach things differently the next time you do it.

Sean O’Neill: But had you so you had learned lessons, you didn’t just say, oh, brush it off, I’ll do the exact same thing again and it worked. Did you actually think or just bad timing or?

Steven Revo: I think I look at the.

Sean O’Neill: And we’re quite seasoned in COVID. It’s not like you’re, it’s your first one.

Steven Revo: Yeah, I mean it was one of them where it was I went for a production meeting at the venue 2 weeks before the event and I’m ringing the doorbell on the venue and I’m like, what’s going on? There’s no one here. I found the guy off one of the directors. I’m like, oh sorry man. There’s been a COVID outbreak at the venue and I was like you got a festival in two weeks. And kind of felt that everyone would come out of that period just absolutely yearning to go again but people were scared, people I think the music industry and live music had been demonized a little bit and people thought if they’re going to be in crowds. They’re going to, they’ll be risking their life essentially. So yeah, it was one of them where I thought should I just kind of cancel this and do it again, but then you tied in financially. So, if you don’t do the event, you’re still paying for it, so.

Sean O’Neill: Reputation.

Steven Revo: Yeah. So, you kind of have to go for it and make the best of it, but I was just fortunate that I could pay the bills but the cash flow wasn’t there from the event. So, you learn from that and it feels a little bit more, the climate feels a little bit better towards that kind of thing now. But I still don’t think the industry’s recovered from it and there’s Brexit COVID cost of living crisis. So, it’s all compacted and constant on everything.

Sean O’Neill: Does ever been a time there’s been, maybe I’m conditioned to the word crisis and all of the other things that exist in our world. But has ever been a time that in your just in in your business life where you thought actually this is just an amazing time and there’s no problems, crisis, warning strikes and all of the above. Or, is it just, because I just feel like a lot, of course a lot of things are real and it’s scares people and I just feel that if you were to only move forward when you don’t hear something bad, then you’d never actually get a window of opportunity. Because there’s always, newspapers have to sell. Bad news travels faster than good news. Granted there is people are suffering. But is that not always the way? For me, it’s always been a way in my life. I don’t know a year.

Steven Revo: I think it’s maybe the degree of the severity of it now. Whereas I feel for me 2008 and the caps of the culture that kind of lit a spark in the Liverpool. It was a good 5, 6 years reverberation out of that and I suppose, and…

Sean O’Neill: Did it, did?

Steven Revo: The things were going quite well. I just remember that about March, February March 2020 all my shows were sold out. And I just remember doing temples at the Zanzi Bar and that was sold out and then the next day because I was doing marketing. I had a 9-to-5 as well. I was doing marketing for the 02, but within that job I was booking shows from the venue and trying to make myself indispensable to the venue. So, up until that point, I’d not really noticed any economic fluctuation it seemed pretty constant.

Sean O’Neill: Over the decades before, granted.

Steven Revo: Well, I can only go from what I hear I hear about the early 80s in Liverpool being similar to maybe now in terms of it became, the market became saturated with tribute bans and touring bands weren’t coming here and there’s an element of that now.

Sean O’Neill: Actually yeah, you’ve got a valid point. March 2020, we all were terrified. We all had question marks over our head. And you have a valid point that the 80s were difficult. I think I was in a period where from I was born at 81. So, although I started in business quite young. There was a period of from the early 90s to 2008 where I got absolutely hammered. So, there’s a greedy good possible two decades of growth. But every year there was a reason why not or there was, for me I am always remember hearing, my family would warn me about you need to get a job because of the news and because this is happening and there was mad cow disease. I grew up on a farm. I just remember every year I’m thinking if I don’t move now, I’ll wait till this is over and then something. I just thought that there’s always a reason to scare us.

And you are right severity of it can change and I just feel that if we don’t make our own economy and be the best at what we can be then we might never be able to create something, because there’s always a reason not to as well.

Steven Revo: Yeah, well it takes a bit of bravery and maybe laughing in the face of defeat for a lot of people, but you’ve, I feel you’ve got to try something you have to.

Sean O’Neill: I think you’ve and this conversation has been great because through the successes you’ve had or the not so many successes. You haven’t exaggerated the ups or downs. You’ve actually said them all with a smile. You seem to have a very optimistic and level-headed view which would is probably the foundation of how you’ve got to where you’ve got to and the ability to keep smiling, which to be fair is a great attribute to have. It’s not easy. It’s not easy to keep smiling no matter how old you are or what field you’re in. Life is difficult. It’s not just, I think my friend mentioned the only time you’re actually on holiday is when there’s an umbrella in your drink and an umbrella over your head. And the rest of the times are probably tough.

Steven Revo: Yeah, I think I’ve only ever felt a true level of total relaxation was what a beach in Brazil with a drink in my hand.

Sean O’Neill: And that’s temporary.

Steven Revo: And that’s very slight moment.

Sean O’Neill: Yeah. And I think that was the point I was talking about. Do you get a chance to switch off because it’s difficult now to succeed. You need to be on it all the time.

Steven Revo: Yeah. And there’s always the next thing that you’re channeling towards you have your peaks if you also say Red Run Club’s a peak, but it’s building towards what’s going to come after that and setting them in motion. So, there’s always a flow. You never just come out of one thing and you’re looking around what do I do next, then it’s already in hand

Sean O’Neill: And you’re well prepared for to take whatever’s coming. How do people find you online? How do they find? Do they follow your socials or?

Steven Revo: Yeah, I mean faith book primarily is the one that I kind of is more personal. Obviously, I’m putting my gigs up and letting my people and my friends know what I’m doing.

Sean O’Neill: Steven Revo.

Steven Revo: Thank you, Sean.

Sean O’Neill: Thank you for your time.

Steven Revo: Cheers man. Thank you.